tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9999692.post113978354414350555..comments2023-10-16T02:46:52.844-07:00Comments on palosverdesblog: Science and the ChurchBill Lamahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02092428206818183253noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9999692.post-1139983862131460122006-02-14T22:11:00.000-08:002006-02-14T22:11:00.000-08:00BillSome good research. A week ago you didn't know...Bill<BR/><BR/>Some good research. A week ago you didn't know when the Renaissance started, and now you've done some good basic reading on early medieval scientific thought. It's a good start , but your conclusion isn't supported by your statements.<BR/><BR/>I agree with the following:<BR/><BR/>(a) The "dark ages" were not as "dark" as they have sometimes been portrayed. The monastic communities of Europe were centers of learning for many hundreds of years.<BR/><BR/>(b) Most of the people who contributed to the resurgence of science following the 13th century were devout Christians.<BR/><BR/>However, you can't move from these statements to your vision of a benevolent Catholic Church nursing the develeopment of science. There are simply too many facts which directly contradict this. It's as though you're concluding that, because Shostakovich and Prokoviev were brilliant composers in 20th century Russia, the Soviet communist system nurtured classical music. It simply wasn't true.<BR/><BR/>The following, however, are true:<BR/><BR/>(1) The new awareness of Greek thought, which was created in the early Renaissance, resulted from its sustenance by Arabic (Islamic) thinkers rather than Christians. Greek thought was brought to light through Islamic Spain.<BR/><BR/>(2) The development of science was greatly facilitated by the use of the decimal system of numerals, also an Arabic (Islamic) invention. The Roman system is almost impossible to calculate with.<BR/><BR/>(3) You're too hard on Aristotle. Many of his thought processes survived for 2,000 years, a lot longer than Newton's (for example). <BR/><BR/>(4) The Catholic Church was on the defensive from the 14th century onwards. Like the 20th Century Soviet Communist party, it tolerated thought as long as its (sometimes untenable) positions were not threatened. When they were threatened, it fought back. In the 13th Century it banned the study of Aristotle, and excommunicated those who disobeyed. <BR/><BR/>(5)In the sixteenth century it worked hard to prevent Copernicus from publishing his heliocentric theory. <BR/><BR/>(6) In the 17th century it punished Galileo for his support of this theory and his views on atomism (which contradicted the idea of transubstantiation). <BR/><BR/>(7) Descartes, the "father" of modern philosophy was forced to withdraw Le Monde, his treatise on Physics and Cosmology, for fear of Church reprisals. <BR/><BR/>etc. etc. etc. The list goes on.... <BR/><BR/>Thanks for discussing this though. It's much better than your normal Bush-loving, liberal-hating stuff.<BR/><BR/>TexAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9999692.post-1139967604241677462006-02-14T17:40:00.000-08:002006-02-14T17:40:00.000-08:00Karen,In his 6 volumes and 1000 pages there is muc...Karen,<BR/>In his 6 volumes and 1000 pages there is much good history in Gibbon's treatise. It is just worth knowing that, like most Humanists, he was dogmatically anti-church, believing that the rise of science required the defeat of religion. He was also an apologist for Roman slavery.<BR/> <BR/>My starting point is Rodney Stark: "For the Glory of God" (2003) and "The Victory of Reason." (2005)<BR/> <BR/>For an alternative to Gibbon see Henri Pirenne, "A History of Europe from the End of the Roman Empire in the West to the Beginnings of the Western States." (1958)<BR/> <BR/>For the Middle Ages see Marcia Cholish, "Medieval Foundations of the Western Intellectual Tradition." (1997)<BR/> <BR/>For the foundations of science, in addition to Whitehead, see John Polkinghorne, "Belief in God in an Age of Science" (1998) and Stanley Jaki, "The Savior of Science" (2000).<BR/><BR/>BillBill Lamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02092428206818183253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9999692.post-1139967512998544622006-02-14T17:38:00.000-08:002006-02-14T17:38:00.000-08:00Bill,Thank you, dear friend, for the heads up on h...Bill,<BR/>Thank you, dear friend, for the heads up on history..I recently purchased"The History of the Decline and Fall.." by Edward Gibbons (abridged edition)..so where the heck does one go to find history unre-written?..of course, biases always come out in the telling of any story, but any suggestions on getting a more clear view of history?.. keep up the great work, friend!<BR/>Love in Jesus,<BR/>KarenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com